Wideband AFR Gauge

[levinracer]

hey guys i am purchasing an innovate MTX-L wideband gauge, it has provisions to conect directly to the ecu. has anyone connected on of these to an M4 before and if so, which pin locations do i need to connect it.

cheers brad

[AdamW]

The MTX-L is not an ideal choice to be honest, you probably can get it to work but it will be difficult. 3 problems;
1, the MTX does not have a seperate ground for its analog output - it shares the main power ground which will exagerate errors caused by ground offsets and noise. 2, All of the innovate products already have a very "noisey" analog output. 3, the motec lambda input is 0-1V, the innovate output is programable but you loose a lot of resolution by programing it to 0-1v.
Personally, I would suggest you spend a little more and search for a better wideband. I have used WBo2 & AEM products with reasonable results.

If you're stuck with the innovate, for best results you should probably leave the MTX output programed for 0-5V then use a 5:1 or 10:1 voltage divider like shown at the bottom of this page: http://www.wbo2.com/faqs/autronic.htm Using that photo for reference, the MTX yellow wire would connect to green on the voltage divider, the mtx ground would connect to the engine block and also loop off to the voltage divider GND then to pin 32 on the motec, the orange wire would go to motec pin 31.

[levinracer]

gday adam and thanks for your reply. i have not yet purchased a gauge but was seriously looking to buy an innovate gauge this week. obviously i wanna get the best and most accurate display i can, and loop it in through the ecu for logging. i looked at the aem gauge and it is also 0-5v analog output. now from what i can gather from your explanation this output is adjustable on either gauge to achieve the 0-1v the motec lambda requires, but would the aem have the same issues as the innovate with noise and earthing? or would either way i would have to run the voltage divider you refered to in the post?

also, if i was to run lambda on the m4 only without an after market gauge option like i am trying to achieve, the m4 is only able to run an lsm sensor, and all other brands of gauges run lsu sensors including the plm which is an option i am also considering and is able to connect to the m4... so then how does the m4 interpret the lsu sensor?

please excuse my electronic novice questioning

regards brad

[AdamW]

Since you havent got one then, definitely avoid the innovate product. Even if you do get it to read accurately, the regular "E8" errors and short sensor life will drive you crazy in no time.
You have two options - get the motec "lambda" upgrade which will allow you to connect a LSM sensor direct to the M4, or as we have been discussing go for a seperate wideband controller that uses a LSU or NTK sensor and interfaces with the M4 via a 0-1V analog signal. If you have "advanced tuning" enabled In the Motec software you can select what type of sensor/controller you have connected including a "user defined" choice.
The LSM option is easy and will give decent accuracy but probably not as accurate at very rich or lean conditions when compared to the LSU/NTK and some say the LSM sensors are getting a little harder to find nowadays (still get them on ebay easy enough). The seperate controller option will probably be cheaper and give better accuracy but be prepared for a steep learning curve as you get it all to work nicely together.
Most of the other gauges/controllers are also designed for 0-5V so will give better results using a voltage divider also, but at least try to get something that has a seperate ground for the analog output. I doubt you will just be able to hook a wideband controller up and find it to work as expected out of the box, on the few that I have done I have always needed to mess around a bit either adjusting the user defined table in the motec or reprograming the analog output of the controller to get the "lambda" reading in the motec to match the display on the controller.
There are many options - all fairly similar; AEM, SLC, PLX, FJO, Daytona sensors, Ecotrons, WBo2, Zeitronix, etc.
I dont normally need a display so I havent looked closely at the options that have a display but most recently I have used the AEM inline controller or the WBo2 2J9, both of which seem to work well (ecotrons ALM looks interesting).

[levinracer]

thanks again for your reply, sounds like spending the money on a motec plm is starting to justify itself to me... so if i choose say AEM, does it have an analog output ground? and if i run a resistive divider and mess around with ecu setup it should work quite well?

brad

[AdamW]

so if i choose say AEM, does it have an analog output ground?

I was mistaken earlier, the AEM inline controllers that I have used do have a seperate analog output grounds but it seems their gauge type controller (30-4100) does not. I just read the instructions for that model now and notice one bonus that it does have is the analog out can be set to "autronic mode" which is a linear 0-1V output so that could mean it has the "voltage divider" built in?

[levinracer]

yeah i read the same thing earlier on a set of instrutions i found for the same gauge, but i wouldnt know if it does or not..i guess i will have to email them and find out.

so do i run one???

[stevesingo]

IIRC the Innovate LC1 has separate signal grounds. I used one with M4 and it was fine, provided I had the signal grounded to the same place as the ECU.

Use the N/B - Motec Lambda meter setting and configure the LC1 accordingly. Use the LC1 & M4 logging functions to cross check the results.

[AdamW]

IIRC the Innovate LC1 has separate signal grounds.

Correction - they used to have seperate grounds. They changed about 5 years ago and now there is no separate ground, the quality also seems to have dropped alot in that time. You can no longer get the "7 wire" versions that had the analog ground.

but i wouldnt know if it does or not..

It doesnt, the instructions clearly shows no separate analog ground in the wiring schematic.

[levinracer]

ok so its sounding like i need to run an aem 30-4100 with a volltage adaptor like the following to reduce electrical noise and set to the 0-1v setting on the gauge, output wired into the motec via pins 31 and 32 selected to n/b and conifgure accordingly...to suit e85

sound right?

http://wbo2.com/faqs/autronic.htm