Throttle Blip???

[RossB]

I think what Pascal is referring to is a "Slide Throttle".

[Pascal]

Yep! Right, that slide throttle. Thanks Ross!

[Holmz]

There are tables for Up Shift DBW Position and Down Shift DBW Position in the Gear Shift function. You need to set up the Gear Shift function even though you might not want the ECU to actually do the gear shift itself.

Ross,

I have a cable operated throttle that I am looking at.
2010 Yamaha R1.
I think it can be cable operated as it looks like a a cable unit on the left hand side.
There is a DBW unit on there as well in the centre.


Question for anyone:
Does anyone know if these can be operated as a cable throttle?

Question for Ross (Jamie/Mark/etc):
Thinking of using the DBW motor to blip the throttle.
Probably something like a looking at brake and clutch line pressures and a dash switch (efficiency,rally,race), as well as speed.

So if the switch is in rally or race, and the brake and clutch line pressure are high, then I want to blip the throttle until the RPM goes up to 6k - at specified speeds. Likely it would do multiple blips, if I was going from 5th down to 2nd gear. When I hear the blip I know to release the clutch in the next gear down (or gears for multiple blips).

Can this be done with any maths in the ECU or ACL, or does it require at DBW option?
(I am uneasy about considering DBW from both a cost and more importantly a complexity perspective, for a primarily cable based throttle)

[Fast_Moto]

I understand that on the R1, the throttle cable limits how far the throttle can be opened by the DBW motor, but the throttles are turned by the DBW motor. One issue is that in this configuration, the DBW motor cannot open the throttle bodies any more than the throttle already indicates (i.e. if the driver wants 70% throttle, all you can get is 70% (or less if so desired by the ECU). I don't know if this throttle body can be modified to be entirely cable operated.

Do you need to use this throttle body, or could you use a different one also?

[Holmz]

I understand that on the R1, the throttle cable limits how far the throttle can be opened by the DBW motor, but the throttles are turned by the DBW motor. One issue is that in this configuration, the DBW motor cannot open the throttle bodies any more than the throttle already indicates (i.e. if the driver wants 70% throttle, all you can get is 70% (or less if so desired by the ECU). I don't know if this throttle body can be modified to be entirely cable operated.

Do you need to use this throttle body, or could you use a different one also?

Thanks Sven - good info on the operation of the cable and DBW part.
I want to use those R1 TB as I want to use the trumpets from the R1 - and they fit right on the R1 TB.
The spacing of the ports is not ideal, but close enough to what I need.
But the 42-mm ports are also a perfect (Goldilocks) size for me.

The shorter 2010 model R1-TB give me some more room in case I want to bend the intakes a bit to fit "under the bonnet".
~Holmz

[IDP]

It would be possible to modify the safety linkage to drive the butterfly shaft directly from the cable pulley but you would have to disconnect the motor drive.
If you wanted to use the motor as a kicker it would need quite complex drive setting up.

I'd suggest it simpler just to use it in DBW configuration as original. That way the blip that you need is very easy to do with the gear shift function in the ECU

[Holmz]

It would be possible to modify the safety linkage to drive the butterfly shaft directly from the cable pulley but you would have to disconnect the motor drive.
If you wanted to use the motor as a kicker it would need quite complex drive setting up.

I'd suggest it simpler just to use it in DBW configuration as original. That way the blip that you need is very easy to do with the gear shift function in the ECU

But then I would need one of those sewing machine (DBW) peddles for the throttle.
And the DBW to be paid for in the ECU.

[IDP]

No you don't need a sewing machine pedal.

You operate the throttle cable as normal, the pedal sensor is on the throttle body.

Yes, you have to pay for the DBW in the ECU but you end up with a nice system with endless possibilities.

Non linear throttle maps, Adjustable engine braking, Gearshift blipper, DBW based traction control, Idle control Etc...

[Holmz]

No you don't need a sewing machine pedal.

You operate the throttle cable as normal, the pedal sensor is on the throttle body.

Yes, you have to pay for the DBW in the ECU but you end up with a nice system with endless possibilities.

Non linear throttle maps, Adjustable engine braking, Gearshift blipper, DBW based traction control, Idle control Etc...

That all sounds good...
But if the cable limits the throttle's maximum opening and the DBW gives only "up to" the requested throttle position of the pedal via the cable, then how can that DWB unit can do any blipping?

It seems that I would have to be heal-toed on both peddles for it to work and really allow the throttle to open up?
Which means that I would have the brake peddle pressure sensed and drive the DBW to zero throttle unit the blip point.

[Fast_Moto]

I just took another look and it looks like it may be possible to eliminate that safety mechanism (at least based on pictures of it on an R6). If you look at the attached picture from an article by sportider.com, there is a linkage that prevents the DBW motor from opening the butterflies more than the throttle cable is opened. You may be able to remove the linkage and turn it into a regular DBW system which has blipping capability.

Before you do, however, I would make sure the throttle sensor has at least two tracks (2 signals) to protect against failure.

When it comes to ride-by-wire throttle, things get a little complicated. The ECU controls the throttle bodies' butterflies, and the implication is that the throttle itself has no physical connection. But on the Yamaha YZF-R6, an interesting arrangement between the servomotor working the butterflies and the throttle cables means the closing cable still physically closes the butterflies and won't allow them to open more than the throttle is opened. I haven't had a chance to look closely at either the Honda VFR1200F or BMW S 1000 RR ride-by-wire setups, but the proximity of the throttle cam to the butterflies and servomotors on both models leads me to believe there is still some form of physical connection there. And I'm certain that other ride-by-wire models offered in the future will be likewise equipped.
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