New on Forum/Lancia

[Brede]

Hi All!
Is there anybody on this forum who have used an M-4 on a Lancia Delta integrale 8 valve?
I have mounted one on my Rallycar using original sensors and wiring-loom,adapted this to a M4 loom,car starts and run but have some trouble with the set up,anyone who has done this before and can help me with the basic setup for sync and ref ? All group N,std snensors and std injectors.
thnx
regards

Brede

[Brede]

08091100 / Brede / Lancia start up ECU CommsDisabled

┌──────────────────────────────┬────────┐ ┌───────────────────────────────────┐
│ Main Setup │ Value │ │ INJECTOR CURRENT IJCU │
├──────────────────────────────┼────────┤ ├───────────────────────────────────┤
│ Injector Scaling IJPU │ 10
│ Injector Current IJCU │ 1.5
│ Injector Battery Comp IJbc │ 4
│ Injector Operation IJOP │ 0
│ Efficiency Calc Method EFF │ 4
│ Load Calc Method LOAd │ 4
│ Load Sites Selection Ld S │ -1
│ Number of Cylinders CYLS │ 4
│ Ref Sensor Type rFSn │ 2
│ Sync Sensor Type SYSn │ 1
│ Ref / Sync Mode rEF │ 1 xxxxx
│ Crank Ref Teeth cr T │ 0 xxxxx
│ Tooth Ratio TOr │ 50 XXXXX
│ Crank Index Position criP │ 347.0 XXXXX
│ Ignition Type ign │ 1
│ Number of Coils COIL │ 1
│ Ignition Dwell Time dELL │ 3.0
│ Ignition Delay Time dLY │ 50


marked with xxxxxx is what i am unsure of what is correct? this has the same Ecu and sensors as a Cosworth

[RossB]

Hello Brede,

The Integrale uses the same ref/sync mode as the SIerra/Escort RS Cosworth. The 8 Valve should have a magnetic sensor in the distributor. The later models had a hall sensor. If wired as factory both ref and sync will trigger from the falling edge. I would start with the following:

Injector Scaling IJPU │ 10
│ Injector Current IJCU │ 2 This will depend on the injectors being used
│ Injector Battery Comp IJbc │ 2 This will depend on the injectors being used
│ Injector Operation IJOP │ 0
│ Efficiency Calc Method EFF │ 4
│ Load Calc Method LOAd │ 4
│ Load Sites Selection Ld S │ -1
│ Number of Cylinders CYLS │ 4
│ Ref Sensor Type rFSn │ 2
│ Sync Sensor Type SYSn │ 2
│ Ref / Sync Mode rEF │ 224
│ Crank Ref Teeth cr T │ 4
│ Tooth Ratio TOr │ 42
│ Crank Index Position criP │ 90 (You must check this with a timing light)
│ Ignition Type ign │ 1
│ Number of Coils COIL │ 1
│ Ignition Dwell Time dELL │ 3.0
│ Ignition Delay Time dLY │ 50

I think that standard injectors are IW025 (Yellow)??? The resistance should be 2.5 ohms. We have not calibrated these injectors but the numbers I have given should be close, you need to check the injector resistance though.

I am not sure which MAP sensor is fitted but the range wil be linear between 0.25V (0 kPa) to 4.75V (308 kPa) for a 3.0 bar sensor or (216 kPa) for a 2 bar sensor.

The AT and ET sensors use the same calibration (i think) the numbers below can be used for a custom calibration for both sensors.

-50 -40 -30 -20 -10 0 10 20 30 40 50
1026 1024 1018 1011 1005 999 979 935 871 752 654

60 70 80 90 100 110 120 130 140 150 160
550 445 358 279 231 187 158 128 98 96 92


170 180 190 200

90 88 86 80

[Brede]

Thnx for answer,ill try this end of week when i am back at work,another question is that i got a question of Mazda RX7 with the new M2R,theese 13B engines i have only carburettor expirience,and nobody had done fuel injection on this type here with good results,have you?This is N/A engine and 260BHP in dyno,poor respons at low revs good at high end.Do you have a race file i can look at?

Regards

Brede

[RossB]

If you download and install the M2R software a start file is included.

[Brede]

Hi thnx,yes i found out that after i had a look at M2R,this is quite similar to M4 so wery good.
Thnx again

Brede

[Delta]

Hello all,

I thought I would add my question to this thread as it is quite similar - I am trying to get an M4 to work with an integrale Evo2 (the last model), it has a P8 Ecu (like Escort Cos) twin coils (wasted spark), a 2.5bar map sensor and I believe a Hall effect cam phase sensor (sync sensor??)
I cannot get it to start and am getting 'sync error', do you have any idea which parts of the map to modify please?

The cam sensor has a metal disc (or drum) with two air gaps in it.

I think it needs modify like this:

Injector Scaling IJPU │ 10
│ Injector Current IJCU │ 2 This will depend on the injectors being used
│ Injector Battery Comp IJbc │ 2 This will depend on the injectors being used
│ Injector Operation IJOP │ 0
│ Efficiency Calc Method EFF │ 4
│ Load Calc Method LOAd │ 4
│ Load Sites Selection Ld S │ -1
│ Number of Cylinders CYLS │ 4
│ Ref Sensor Type rFSn │ 2 What is this? Crank sensor? (it is the same)
│ Sync Sensor Type SYSn │ 2 Probably needs changing
│ Ref / Sync Mode rEF │ 224 Ditto
│ Crank Ref Teeth cr T │ 4
│ Tooth Ratio TOr │ 42
│ Crank Index Position criP │ 90 (You must check this with a timing light)
│ Ignition Type ign │ 1 Change to?
│ Number of Coils COIL │ 1 Change to 2?
│ Ignition Dwell Time dELL │ 3.0
│ Ignition Delay Time dLY │ 50



What should I change map to?

Thanks for reading and I hope you can help!

[Puntopaul]

[list=][/list]

Hi I also have a m4 with the same prob won't start

but all is good on diagnostics part from no sync

The engine is a fiat coupe 16vt/ integrale 16vt

Can anybody help with setting as above

Thank you

[Delta]

I don't think the Motec guys use this forum anymore Paul, I tried emailing them the problem a while ago, but they didn't know what they were talking about with this system either. It seems to be Top Secret for some reason....

[MarkMc]

The main thing you need to check is the polarity of the ref and sync signals. The different ref/sync modes 221,222,223 and 224 refer to different combinations of magnetic trigger edges. You should probably watch my webinars on ref/sync. If you have the edges wrong this can stop the engine running.

The ref and sync sensor types refer to if the sensor is Hall (generally three wires) or different strength magnetic sensors (generally two wire).

It is best to have an osciloscope to see what the signal is on cranking so you can enter the correct values.

The ignition type referes to the polarity of the ignition module used, generally this is fall edge but really needs to be set up specifically for the module, if you get it wrong it will blow the module.

If the engine is waste spark then the number of coils is 2.