Drive by wire functionality

[MarkMc]

So many bits in the one thread, I leave you alone for five minutes....

Ok. Putting any old motor on three throttle boddies is definitely not recommended. All DBW setups should be correctly characterized by us to ensure they will not hurt anyone when they fail. Custom setups are something we really do not like for the simple fact that trial and error of a DBW throttle setup is just down right dangerous. Three smaller throttle with a DBW4 would be recommended.

Secondly I do not really like the idea of using the Cut Level as an axis for reducing power through the DBW simply because you get a level of cut to reduce power calculated by the pit speed function, for example, this then is used to reduce throttle, reducing the throttle reduces power and therefore the need for cut.....cut reduces and then so does the throttle reduction, it is a big vicious loop. Having said that I am sure messing with it enough will give you some kind of result...I am happy to be proven wrong.

If you only had the 3D comp table to do rev limiting and pit speed you would simple put your pit switch into an AT input and do a custom calibration for a 0 or 1 channel, this would be your axis on the comp table. The second axis could be RPM. Pit Switch off ("0" line of graph), the RPM axis is used to drop the throttle position where you want the RPM limit to be, I would also probably use some ignition retard aswell as was mentioned earlier. Pit Switch on ("1" line of graph), the RPM axis is again used for a lower RPM limit for in the pits again with some retard. You can also use the 0/1 channel as an axis with RPM for an Ignition Comp table for the retard in both situations.

Ben, just a note you are correct when you say "it is not designed to do it"...for a point of view. The whole idea of the Version 3 software was to give people the freedom the always asked for, unfortunately this needs to be balanced with a certain number of "lables" for various parts of the software to not totally confuse the average user. Realistically a lot of the software was not designed to do anything in particular (yes, it may have a lable on it) it is really up to you to decide what each part does.

The sequential box makes all of this much easier for the throttle blip/de-blip.

[ElsmoortelG]

Can we connect the pit limit button also to a dig input ? And link the digital input to an axle. Or does it has to be a AT input ? Because it is wired to a DIG input for the moment.
If we want to exclude the coïncidence where the driver shifts in a different gear which is not foreseen as to be used with the pit limiter. Can we then use another table to solve this

I mean :
Refer to an aux table on the Y-axle instead of the AT or DIG input. And use for the aux table on the x-axle : gear and on the y-axle : pit limit button.

To be able to :
When the pit limit button is not pushed to limit the revs.
When the pit limit button is pushed to limit the revs depending on the gear which it is in.

[Ben-S]

Provided you have enough tables you can do just about anything you can think of. Use the same concept with the throttle follower with this one, you know the channels involved you just have to find a place for them.

[ElsmoortelG]

In the meantime it is clear that the DBW can be used for :

pit speed
DBW de-blip for upshifts
throttle blip for downshifts (drive speed related)
rev limiter
TCS

The only thing where I still have some doughts is the reaction speed of the DBW.
For example for the rev limiter.
Lets say the rev limiter is at 8500 rpm.
And it is configured that from 8400 to 8500 rpm the throttle has to go from 100 % to 0 %.
I checked the logging (in 4th gear) how much time it takes to increase 100 rpm between 8400 and 8500 and its about 154 ms.
What is the time an electrical throttle valve can move from 0 % to 100 % and from 100% to 0%
Does anybody have a clue.

[figgie]

well

I can tell you the LS2 DBW throttle can do it as fast as you mash or take your foot off the pedal. OF course with the motec you can adjust the sensitivity and limits (ie instead of 0%-100% you can do 0%tps=0% DBW & 100%tps = 40%DBW, of course not recommended ) Time, I am not sure as I never measured the LS2 DBW. Perhaps MoTeC can answer that.

[ElsmoortelG]

I didn't find any electrical throttles in the motec catalogue.
I need 3 throttles of 60 mm diameter. Can anyone recommend a unit which he already tested in combination with a 100 series ECU.
Can all functions like upshift DBW, downshift DBW etc... be used when I install a DBW4-unit.

To have a window to return to the previous configuration I would like to connect the load-cel and throttle postion driver to the ADL2. And feed these channels through CAN to the M600. Will this be fast enough ?

This way I do not need to change the wiring of the M600 and in case it doesn't work we can change the inlet manifold with the old version.

[IJ.]

I'm using a generic Bosch 68mm DBW here but I know they do smaller units and MoTeC have the mapping for them.

[MarkMc]

To easily use the pit button as a table axis it needs to be in an AT.

I would wire the TPD sensors dirrectly to the ECU but realistically there would not be enough delay in the CAN bus for you to notice.

I did some logging on the bench here with a big GM DBW throttle once (can't find the logging at this time) but the overview was this. The response of the throttle butterfly was as figgie said it was as fast as you could mash your foot, or in my case my hand. The 0-100% time was something like 20msecs but the interesting thing was that 0-5% the thing was speeding up and 95-100% it had to slow down but from 5-95% was frighteningly fast. I would be quite happy in saying it could be used for RPM limiting. Practically speaking you probably would not need it to go all the way from 100% back to 0% to stop the engine accelerating especially in the higher gears.

If you have an ADL2 and CAN back to the ECU I would not strees about running out of tables you could do all your trick calculations for pit speed and RPM limiting and CAN it back. Probably even do a closed loop speed control.

We don't actually sell any DBW throttle we just calibrate factory ones. The Honda CRV BDW I have on my 4AG is 60mm, is the same as some of the Subaru ones and we already have a calibration for it. Part number from the throttle is GMB1A J10000077940 40126.

[ElsmoortelG]

I see only one possibility to use the extra's of the ADL for the throttle position.
And that is for the DBW throttle blip. To create an RPM follower.
you create a 3D table in the ADL with
x-axle : speed
y-axle : gear
--> the output is rpm, this I should feed in a GP channel and rename it towards RpmVsLink

Then create a PID with :
feedback channel : RPM
Aim value : RpmVsLink
Output : GP renamed towards ThrottleBlip

Get this ThrottleBlip over with CAN to the M600 and feed it in a user channel and then create a 1 on 1 2D table in Down Shift DBW Position table.

But for the Pit limit and RPM limit I do not have a clue. Can you make some suggestions so I can figure out a way to do this ?

In the meantime I found in our warehouse a throttel of 60 mm.
It is a Fomoco(ford) throttle, Mazda part no : L35M-13-640 originally used on the Mazda3 and 6 MPS.
Is the calibration for this electrical throttle known ?
I think the basics are the same as the L4 engine range from Ford.I mean the 1.8, 2.0, 2.3, 2.5 cc.

[Ben-S]

P 25
I 10
D 20
Per. 2
DB .2
FF 4
Neg Int -25
Freq 8000
MV 14

Keep in mind these values are not from motec i came up with them on a test bench, the values i was supplied by motec did not work (they did not test my throttle but had done mazda 6 throttles before). Neither myself or motec know why i would have had to use different values but i ran the car for over a year with those settings with great response and absolutely no problems. Use them at your own risk.