Comparing the M130 to the M400

[mr2andy]

Hi guys,
I'm currently running a M400 on a 4 cylinder 2.0L Toyota engine. I've been thinking about upgrading to the new M130 just because for the newer and the latest tech from Motec.

If I'm telling you that the M400 is doing everything I need to do with my car now, i.e. (Car runs great, Traction control setup already, and etc) what would be the reason which I should still upgrade to the M130.

Let's keep cost out of the equation for now.

Thanks for the all the inputs.

Cheers
Andy

[David Ferguson]

- Easy Knock Control integration
- Significantly improved logging capabilities.
- Rev-matching gear shifts for sequential gearboxes.
- Ability to have custom firmware.
- Modern software that is a real joy to use. The first time you hit pause, back up and quick lambda on a bad cell -- it's all worth it. Or when you make a typo, and can use undo to restore the mess you made.

[mr2andy]

David,
Thanks! Always great info.

- Can you elaborate a little more on the knock control between the M1 series vs the Mx00 series + the SKM? I spoke with a local Motec tuner about this and he told me that it's truly difficult to identify the knock resonant without blowing up a few motors? and all he would do is to monitor the voltage from the knock sensor. If that's the case, M1 knock control is truly only great for a pro-team and not great for an enthusiast? Educate me more if you may

- Significantly improved logging capabilities.
If I tell you that my M400 is connected with an ADL2 with i2Pro enable, will the M130 still have the advantage?

- Rev-matching gear shifts for sequential gearboxes.
Too bad I'm just running the standard gear box.

- Ability to have custom firmware
Again, MR2's 3SGTE is not a popular engine so I doubt anyone would care about writing a custom firmware for it.

- Software
yes, Mx00 series software do seems very dated.

Beside these, the Mx00 series will most likely able to run my 2.0L engine just as well the the M130 right? provided the tuner I have is proficient with both M400 and M130.

Cheers
Andy

[David Ferguson]

I suggest you look at the excellent webinars on the M1 Knock Control setup and tuning found here:

http://www.motec.com/webinars/webinararchive/#M1ECU


Your ADl2 with I2 Pro is great for logging -- but an M1 does have at least 16x more memory, which can be handy for street driving or finding rarely occuring operational issues. In one sense, the M1 is less configurable than the M400 in what data it sends over the CAN bus. On the other hand, it sends more data by default, and a higher sample rates so it will work well with your ADL2. Try making a new ADL2 config and load the M1 Comm templates to see what channels are available.

If you engine is well tuned, and running successfully, it's unlikely it will gain any power from running with an M130 ECU. But if you like playing with the engine, the tune and the software -- you'll really enjoy using the M1 Tune application.

[mr2andy]

David,
I've been reading the knock control on M1 and is the sole reason why I've been considering upgrade to the m130.

I don't see much information on the skm unit and wonder if the skm capable of doing what M1 series can do?

I know that the VE tuning on the m1 series allow upgrades of components without fully retune the base map, correct?

[mr2andy]

I went ahead and watch the knock seminar for M1 and read through the documentation for the SKM unit and yes, I agree that tuning for knock is much easier using the M130 compare to the M400+SKM.

My question for you now is that, technically, once we have tuned the knock using the M1 and found the knock frequency spectrum say 8Khz, and now if I then setup my SKM to listen to knock @ 8khz, I would assume the M400 will be able to control the knock just as well as the M130?

[David Ferguson]

I don't have enough experience with the SKM to tell you. I can say that the M130 will allow an engine to run right at the knock limit. I would suspect the ability to listen for up to 4 separate frequencies and the flexibility of the response setup would be an advantage over the SKM. BTW, I find that the second harmonic (ie. 2x the base frequency) is often the best.

I think you should sell the M400 while it still is a currently available model (any price you ask will be compared to the price of a new one), and get an M130. Don't look back.

[mr2andy]

Actually, I have already rewire my M400 so it matches all the pinout for M130 and all needed is to switch the CAN wiring and the new Ethernet pins and it's ready to go with a M130 and yes I have already bought the M130 with the GPR package.

Just that, while looking through the GPR package, I felt like the M400 is actually more flexible interms of configuration comparing to the GPR package. The M1 hardware itself is very flexible/powerful but the GPR package doesn't seem as flexible as the Mx00. Maybe because I'm more familiar with the Mx00 than the M1 at this point.

so, I'm really having a second thought here and wonder if it was a wise move to migrate from the M400 over to M130.

I appreciate the conversation and always learn a lot from you.

Thanks again David.

[Stephen Dean]

Hi,

What areas do you find on the M1 inflexible compared to the Mx00?

I interested in feedback like this so that we can improve areas that are needed, or increase the help if the package has the ability to do what is needed, but isn't as accessible to the end user as it should be.

[MarkMc]

Hello,
Just my 2c worth.

When it comes to the comparison between our generations of ECUs. I have had the last three generations all on the same car (turbo 4AGZE in an AE86). I went through M4, M800 and now M150. I would absolutely NEVER go back to an M800....why? Well, as a very basic level we have substantially improved the way every part of the engine control has been calculated. My usual response for anyone that asks is the the M1 calculates everything 10-20 times faster than the M800. When it comes to all the basics like ignition and injection it shows up with smoother engine running and that's even before we get to idle control which is just so far beyond the M800 it is not funny. Getting great results is so much easier on an M1 and when you include things like the RPM limiting and the all other control functions....ask any experienced MoTeC tuner about doing boost control on an M800 compared to an M1, the M1 is light years ahead.

When it comes to flexibility the Mx00 had the table axis setup....that was good I agree but how many people actually use this as an absolute necessity....not that many. There are cases where people have very specific needs but that is really rare, most of the time people had a good idea based on the flexibility and just went with their idea. It is extremely rare that there is something that cannot be done in an M1, many of the functions that people were doing have either been added or the base function updated anyway. If there is anything definitely missing from the M1 it will normally get added (if there is not away around it). The M1 is just too good at running an engine to ignore, even though the Mx00 was good it can't compare.