M1 GPR limitations

[PQatPIT]

....but to have logging that is on par with with every entry level ECUs...

When you use the Motec software for log analyzing and after that get back to entry level stuff then you realise the Motec way is so much better. I haven't seen or used any entry level software to be on par with i2std nor i2pro.

It is about quality, not feature count.

[mk e]

....but to have logging that is on par with with every entry level ECUs...

When you use the Motec software for log analyzing and after that get back to entry level stuff then you realise the Motec way is so much better. I haven't seen or used any entry level software to be on par with i2std nor i2pro.

It is about quality, not feature count.

But you don't get use of istd or ipro with the base package, you get a locked (aka crippled) version of istd. Yes, the pay to upgrade version is quite nice and probably well worth the price, but the base version that the GRP package gives you access to isn't very good for anything other than showing what you're missing by not upgrading.

To be fair the tuner has pretty nice time based graphing built in making basic tuning faster and easier than if you had to log and then go look at the file which is very nice and you do get the absolute basics logged.......but it's still a $5000 ECU so I kind of expect it to be at least as good at all the basic stuff as a $2000 ECU without requiring another $375 upgrade that lets it leapfrog the cheaper stuff data collection wise.

Hell, I'd even take a CSV file of the channels I want logged over the crippled istd if that were a choice......it is definitely a love/hate relationship I have with the M150/GPR package and the basic logging is on the hate side.

[Patrick]

Hi mk e,

there is no such thing as a crippled version of i2 Standard.

GPR includes level 1 logging -- this is used for diagnostic purposes only.
Level 2 logging allows an extra 100 channels at up to 200Hz.
Level 3 logging allows an extra 2000 channels at up to 1000Hz.

i2 Pro is a separate upgrade.

I guess the intention is to provide the tuner with nice data in Tune. This allows the engine to be tuned and analysed on the dyno, but if you want to analyse performance on a race track you need to buy a logging upgrade.

Patrick

[mk e]

Hi mk e,

there is no such thing as a crippled version of i2 Standard.

50 shades of grey.

While i2 standard itself is not technically crippled it has no functionality without data and to get data you need to pay more. Crippled is crippled no matter what path you take to get there. Personally I would be much happier having no access at all to ianything and just getting a csv file of useful data out of the ECU.

GPR includes level 1 logging -- this is used for diagnostic purposes only.
Level 2 logging allows an extra 100 channels at up to 200Hz.
Level 3 logging allows an extra 2000 channels at up to 1000Hz.

i2 Pro is a separate upgrade.

I guess the intention is to provide the tuner with nice data in Tune. This allows the engine to be tuned and analysed on the dyno, but if you want to analyse performance on a race track you need to buy a logging upgrade.

Patrick

My point is level 1 logging which is included with the GPR package is significantly inferior to EVERY other ECU option on the market and has very little value. Level 2 is WAY better than most other options, but that doesn't change the fact that level 1 is pretty bad.

The GPR package has no ability to read an O2 sensor without the purchase of addition HW again making it significantly inferior to every other ECU option.

Spin it anyway you please, but these are very basic functions that motec chose not to include. This is not feature counting or spec comparing, this is pretty basic functionality that is not in the M150/GPR setup which leads to a pretty unsatisfying ownership experience. I guess the motec business model at the entry level is to make the customers so unsatisfied they feel they have no choice but to upgrade to save the investment they've already made.

Shame on me I guess for not digging deeper and just assuming the basics were functional before purchasing.....I'll make it work for now but will most likely replace it with something else once my project budget recovers a bit if the package hasn't been upgrade by then to at least be able to read O2 sensors.

[David Ferguson]

I took a look at that it would take to modify the GPR package to support Lambda analog input channels and it appears to be doable. If I were to produce a package like that (GPR + analog Lambda and maybe some more general purpose user tables), would that do what you want?

[mk e]

I took a look at that it would take to modify the GPR package to support Lambda analog input channels and it appears to be doable. If I were to produce a package like that (GPR + analog Lambda and maybe some more general purpose user tables), would that do what you want?

David,
The would be a big step forward....but as I understand it running the package you create requires a development license which is $2800ish or about $1500 more than the GPR package so it would be way cheaper to just buy an LTCD and quit my whining. Am I understanding right?

When these ecus came out I really wanted one.....and Santa(aka my wife ) brought me one for Christmas a year ago. I'm finally ready to get going installing it and the check for the GPR package has been sitting on my desk for about 2 weeks now but I just haven't been able to bring myself to mail it knowing it's really just a down payment.........I have to decide what to do pretty soon.

[David Ferguson]

So here's the deal. I would need to have an M150 with a development license (I currently have an M130). I could then develop the package, and put it on my M150 (or any M150 that had a development license) . That is what you described).

But, I could also publish the package with it's own license -- MoTeC and I negotiage the price. I'm guessing if it's exactly GPR + features, it will be priced slightly higher than GPR. If it's GPR with some features changed -- then it might be priced closer to the GPR price. So one way to lower the cost of the package is to make it more specific to your exact engine or configuration.

Anyone can get a license for that package (ie. pay Motec) and download it through Motec Online.

I see a business model where I develop M1 packages that customers want but MoTeC doesn't have the time or resources to do. I have to make the investment in the ECU's and development licenses, so I need to figure out what the market demand is for packages I might customize/create to determine the price.

[mk e]

Well you've caught me at just the right time then

PMs aren't working so why don't you shoot me an email:
mark@gemellocattivo.com

Mark

[PQatPIT]

...but it's still a $5000 ECU so I kind of ...

And it is still about quality, not feature count.

You really, really, really, (omt) really get what you pay for.

[greenamex2]

I see a business model where I develop M1 packages that customers want but MoTeC doesn't have the time or resources to do. I have to make the investment in the ECU's and development licenses, so I need to figure out what the market demand is for packages I might customize/create to determine the price.

Glad to see I am not the only one thinking along those lines!

If people play the game we could quickly have the ECU equivalent of an "app store" to download from.