M1 GPR limitations

[tepid1]

Hello,

I'm having some issues with the M1 software and I want to make sure that it's not just me experiencing this....

In the Aux output assignments, why does it seem that I am limited to only what Motec offers of assigned axis channels? Why can't I assign ground speed to an axis instead or RPM or MAP?

Motec, if I am limited to this, would you consider opening up the package a bit? I'm coming from an M800 with advanced tuning and I liked the flexibility. So far it's not exactly a drag racers dream.

Thanks,
Chris

[PEI330Ci]

Chris,

You're not the only one, it's how the GPR Package has been configured.

The only way to change this, and many other set parameters, is to develop a custom Package with M1 Build.

I'm not 100% clear on how the licensing system works, so you will need to contact your vendor to discover what options are available to you. For certain though, you will need a Development License on the ECU, which costs $2820 USD. This enables your ECU to receive custom Packages from M1 Build.

Getting access to an open GPR Project is between you and your Vendor. As I understand it, Motec supplies an open Project to Vendors when they purchase an M1 Development Kit and take M1 Build Training. The license belongs to the vendor. I believe most Vendors with Development Licenses at this point are doing their own custom PNP kits for niche applications. (HTP and John Reed come to mind) Based on the Motec distribution model, it's possible that some will start to offer custom GPR packages for a fee.

Playing around with M1 Build and the example projects, I completely understand why Motec does not want to offer this as part of the M1 ECU software. M1 Build is complicated, and in some ways quirky.

[tepid1]

Adam,

I'll have to look into what my vendor has and doesn't have. I sent a reply to your email, btw.

There is another way around the GPR limitations and it comes slightly cheaper than the development license.

My thought was to upgrade my SDL to a c125 so that I have the tables in the dash to control what I want. A c125 with the I/O upgrade comes in way below the cost of the development license. Then again, it would be sweet to push the m150 and see what it can really do!

[PEI330Ci]

Adam,

I'll have to look into what my vendor has and doesn't have. I sent a reply to your email, btw.

There is another way around the GPR limitations and it comes slightly cheaper than the development license.

My thought was to upgrade my SDL to a c125 so that I have the tables in the dash to control what I want. A c125 with the I/O upgrade comes in way below the cost of the development license. Then again, it would be sweet to push the m150 and see what it can really do!

Screens and logging memory aside, the SDL and C125 can do the same stuff. The SDL has 5 more inputs than the C125 if that's an issue in your system, but the M150 has so many I/Os I think you'd need to run an LMP car to need more!

The latest update to all the dashes has a fairly detailed receive template for M1 Series ECUs. It should be pretty easy to build ECU channel based logic functions in the dash if required.

I would start by making a list of what the GPR package isn't doing for you, and communicating that directly with your Vendor to see what options are available to you.

[mk e]

Hello,

I'm having some issues with the M1 software and I want to make sure that it's not just me experiencing this....

In the Aux output assignments, why does it seem that I am limited to only what Motec offers of assigned axis channels? Why can't I assign ground speed to an axis instead or RPM or MAP?

Motec, if I am limited to this, would you consider opening up the package a bit? I'm coming from an M800 with advanced tuning and I liked the flexibility. So far it's not exactly a drag racers dream.

Thanks,
Chris

I had about the same initial reaction. I saw the specs on the M150 and was pretty excited...waited patiently(which wasn't that hard since my car wasn't running anyway ).....but the GPR package limits what can actually be accessed and used quite a bit

There are some things I like so I'm looking forward getting it installed and playing with it but .....

[PEI330Ci]

I had about the same initial reaction. I saw the specs on the M150 and was pretty excited...waited patiently(which wasn't that hard since my car wasn't running anyway ).....but the GPR package limits what can actually be accessed and used quite a bit

There are some things I like so I'm looking forward getting it installed and playing with it but .....

There are other ECU vendors that lock the channel assignments as well. (Cosworth comes to mind)

[tepid1]

Hello,

I'm having some issues with the M1 software and I want to make sure that it's not just me experiencing this....

In the Aux output assignments, why does it seem that I am limited to only what Motec offers of assigned axis channels? Why can't I assign ground speed to an axis instead or RPM or MAP?

Motec, if I am limited to this, would you consider opening up the package a bit? I'm coming from an M800 with advanced tuning and I liked the flexibility. So far it's not exactly a drag racers dream.

Thanks,
Chris

I had about the same initial reaction. I saw the specs on the M150 and was pretty excited...waited patiently(which wasn't that hard since my car wasn't running anyway ).....but the GPR package limits what can actually be accessed and used quite a bit

There are some things I like so I'm looking forward getting it installed and playing with it but .....

The latest GPR package release fixed some of the limiting concerns I had. IE: Staged injection, 2 boost control solenoids etc.

[mk e]

To me it just seems like "cripple code" when features that are standard even on the lowest price options require purchasing an upgrade to use.

I have a V12 that is FINALLY, after 8 years of work, approaching finished
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1611

and the M150 is a nice control option. Its got channels for everything I could want so I sold the M800 and expanders I had waiting on the shelf and bought the M150 last year. just staring to layout the install now.

As I go though and plan out the install there area lot of ...hmmmmmmmm moments.

There are like 30 AN inputs, but there is not a generic setup of any kind, you have to call it something on the list. Ok fine that's minor enough but I can't call my NBO2 or WBO2 O2 signals because they aren't coming from a LTC....hmmmmmm. I have a NB O2 in each header to help me balance the ITBs and WB in the 2 main collectors for4 actual tuning so the upgrade would be about $6000 which just isn't going to happen. It looks like I can tell the ECU the 12 NB sensors are EGTs and display the output as mV on a temp (c) axis and I can send the WBO2 signals in as oil temp&pres and display lambda as lambdaX100 on a pres(kPA) axis and those will also log without the logging upgrade. Ok fine.

Then same on the output side. I want to have the ECU drive the Temp guage on the dash so I'm seeing what the ECU sees....hmmmmmmm....well if I tell the ECU its a coolant fan it looks like it should work, but that also means I get 1 actual coolant fan not 2, luckily I couldn't find space for the AC compressor so I only need 1 fan. Not having generic stuff means a lot of digging through defined inputs/outputs looking for something that has meets the requirements and won't affect anything else. There are 4 load or TPS vs rpm generics available so thats a help but its only 4 so I'm trying hard to other options wherever possible. I spent a few hours the other day figuring out what all the predefined outputs do exactly to see what I could use where. but it looks like my fuel pum speed control, exhaust bypass valve and intake manifold valve will need to go on load v rpm...or wait, only 2 of those so I'll need to use TPS v rpm for one of them which I guess will be the fuel pump speed as that doesn't really matter much as I'm only trying to reduce fuel heating.

Clearly the goal here is to nudge me to buy the development package.

Don't get me wrong, the core functionality looks absolutely fantastic and I can't wait to fire the thing up but needing to pay extra for these little things that are standard on even the cheapest ECUs these days is a bit frustrating to me.....it's pretty embarrassing to have to explain the an MS user that my M150 I can't do close loop without an $850 option that is about double what their whole ECU cost!

[Patrick]

Hi mk e,

I don't think MoTeC intentionally cripple the GPR. It's designed for use in an installation with other MoTeC equipment (displays, LTCs, PDM, etc.).

There are only three upgrades available for an M1 -- Level 2 Logging, Level 3 Logging, i2 Pro Analysis. Which features available on lowest price options require purchasing an upgrade?

If you've seen the M1 Build software you'll understand why there's no generic input setup.

Which upgrade is $6000? Someone previously mentioned that a development license is $2820 USD. If you already own a GPR license you only need to pay the difference between the GPR and the development license if you choose to upgrade.

You can use the EGT inputs as lambda if you so desire, it won't make the calculations do anything incorrect as long as you don't have any of the EGT compensation tables configured.

The coolant temperature channel is available via CAN if that helps. How does your temperature gauge work?

Closed loop fuel control is included in all M1 packages and requires no option.

It honestly sounds like your installation would benefit from you customising the code somewhat using M1 Build. I would contact MoTeC to confirm the pricing of the upgrade as it sounds like you may have been misinformed.

If you feel strongly that there are features missing from the GPR that should be included you can email them to support@motec.com.au with an explanation of what you're trying to do.

[mk e]

Hi mk e,

....... I would contact MoTeC to confirm the pricing of the upgrade as it sounds like you may have been misinformed.

I'm not misinformed I don't think, but I do think you've got your rose colored glasses on

Yes, the M1xx comes with closed loop fully enabled...but it doesn't work unless you PURCHASE an LCT for $500.....so while not technically an option you have to pay to use it and none of the quick-tune stuff works the LTC option either. Call it what you will, but it costs additional money to use these features.

The M150 can read 14 O2 sensor which is great!.....but it's $500/channel to actually connect an O2 sensor. $500X14=$7000. buying the LTCD cuts that to just $422/ channel and the total bill to only $5900 ....should I say Yay! now?????

Yes the M150 has logging included.....but to have logging that is on par with with every entry level ECUs you need to buy the Level 2 logging for $375. Yay! again?

There are what I believe some choices in the limits of the GPR package which appear to have no other purpose than to strongly encourage additional spending. That is the motec way, I get that but you'd think or at least I'd think the base unit would do at least as well at the basics as the entry level ECUs do these days and it doesn't....but it adds advanced features that other ECU just flat can't do.

I just find it strange.....but I'll make it work.