BMW V10

[Martin]

Hi,

I want to start a project on a BMW M6 V10 in a 3series body. Can anyone help me with the setup and requirements for Running a BMW M6 V10 on Motec? ref/sync, Cam control, Drive by wire... etc


Thanks
Martin

[Apex Speed Tech]

I want to start a project on a BMW M6 V10 in a 3series body. Can anyone help me with the setup and requirements for Running a BMW M6 V10 on Motec? ref/sync, Cam control, Drive by wire... etc

We've done 2 of these now - one in an E92 and one in an E30. I'm doing the 3rd this week for Dinan BMW.

A LOT of development has gone into this. It is not a simple task; doing so involves modifying the drive by wire motors, doing some things in stock wiring to run VANOS and the stock coils. There are also lots of I/Os to deal with - 4 TPS sensors, 2 TPS sensors, 4 cam inputs, 1 crank, 4 drivers for VANOS, 2 for DBW. If you want oil level and temp, you'll either have to ditch the stock setup and install a dipstick tube, or install a custom oil level/temp sender from Gill. We have paid for the development of this part, but it will still cost about $2k.

I'd make yourself an I/O list and figure out how you're going to map all this out. You will need an M800, E816, DBW4 and Ignition expander. Also, these are pretty detonation prone motors, so you make want to invest in an SKM.

-Neel

[Martin]

Hi Neel,

Thanks for your reply. This will be going into a E36.

I/O Includes the following...

2 x TPD
2x TPS bank1
2X TPS bank2
4x DBW outputs (each bank has a motor for its inividuals?)
1x Sync signal & cam Pos
3x Cam pos
1x Ref signal

anything else?


Is the Cam position measurement and control similar to n52? Ive got quite a bit of experience on the BMW n52 (3 Litre straight 6 found in the e90 BMW`s)

Why does the DBW need to be modified? I guess you`d have to add ignitors to the drive the coils?

Thanks
Martin

[Apex Speed Tech]

Is the Cam position measurement and control similar to n52? Ive got quite a bit of experience on the BMW n52 (3 Litre straight 6 found in the e90 BMW`s)

Never done an N52. But since there's twice the cams its twice the fun. You have 6 evenly spaced teeth on the intakes and 6-1 on the exhausts. The control is single driver per camshaft.

Why does the DBW need to be modified? I guess you`d have to add ignitors to the drive the coils?

The DBW motor is CAN based. It cannot be directly run by the MOTEC. And you will need igniters.

[Martin]

HI Neel,


Can the Motec run the V10 on OEM trigger wheels and sensors?

DO you use the 6-1 on the Exhaust for Sync? Ref is 60-2? Is the DBW Mod done on the butterfly internally? Just as a matter of interest....did you see big gains over OEM when you have done these engines?

Regards
Martin

[Apex Speed Tech]

Can the Motec run the V10 on OEM trigger wheels and sensors?

DO you use the 6-1 on the Exhaust for Sync? Ref is 60-2? Is the DBW Mod done on the butterfly internally? Just as a matter of interest....did you see big gains over OEM when you have done these engines?

MOTEC has a BMW V10 ref/sync mode in the V3.5. You use the 6-1 for exhaust sync. The DBW mod is done in the DBW motor.

These motors have 12:1 compression stock and the stock knock control is very integral to control. We're actually on the dyno at Dinan with one today.

-Neel

[Martin]

Hi Neel,

Thanks, ive seen the mode...just wanted to make sure its all without mod`s!.... I hate mods
Are there any flaps or tumble valves on the engine? I havent seen it bare yet.

What gearbox are you running on it?
BMW has got a nice slave cylinder for clutch that incorporates a position output sensor...its found on the SMG gearboxes. The clutch pedal also has a position switch that is solid state(hall)


Thanks alot for your help, its really appreciated
Regards
Martin

[MarkMc]

Hi Martin,
We did one of those engines here. We actually used two ECUs, one per bank connected via CAN. You basically have one as a Master and the other as a Slave where its main fuel and ignition tables are configured to just follow exactly what the other ECU is doing, it works very well.

There is a special ref/sync mode for this engine as the cam signals are not evenly spaced on either edge and actually work out as 8-1-1 on the exhaust cams.

The engine was converted to M3 DBW motors by the customer. The engines can be a bit painful when trying to get the idle nice becasue the factory system uses the seperate idle control motors for the very light load driving and leave the main 10 throttles fully closed so balancing them can be a nightmare for race applications. I think the idle motors were CAN as well.

I do not remember any other flaps, tumbles or anything like that, the engine had a factory airbox.

Another thing you must be careful of is the amount of current the cam solenoids draw. We had a couple of problems where the ECU would shut down the output chips due to heat but then again the ECU was mounted above the exhaust....just something to keep an eye on.

I believe we made an extra 25hp on the engine dyno, not sure of comparisons though the mid range for torque though as we have never seen a standard engine dyno curve for one.

The engine is in a tube framed, off road buggy and the guy has never had any problems with it.

[Martin]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your reply! I gave the customer a rough estimate of what it might cost. Ill probably hear in the new year if the project is a GO. The reason he want to go fot the V10 is that he can buy a used one for about $7500AUD.

Would you suggest the 1 ECU with expanders or 2 Linked ECU option? Did you have any expanders with the 2 ECU option? And were they M800`s?

Tube frame buggy`s are a big part of our business....but people here are LS crazy....much like the Ausies( I hope im not offending anyone We just did one with LS2 Stroker, M800, Motec Dash and logging, PDM, SLM, GPS, Gearbox control (pneumatic)

Cheers
Martin

[MarkMc]

HI Martin,
No expanders just an M800 and an M600, the customer already had the M800 and money did not seem to be a problem. The guy bought the engine new from BMW but it was not complete so he had to buy every other part new, cost him over $80,000AUS apparently.

I'm sure the expanders would work the same I cannot see why they would not. You would need two ignition expanders because the engine is odd fire. I think the Two ECUs may be neater when it comes to wiring and I think our customer went for it simply because it was WAY cooler to have two hundred series ECUs.