MoTeC Global Forum

hey guys,

I was wondering if i could get a second pair of eyes over my proposed setup for my Street / Strip car.

Engine:

364 Cube Ford Windsor
Estimated RPM 7800-8200RPM

Fuel Injectors are Injector Dynamics ID1000 Items, so i don't think there needs to be anything more spoken about them

Engine has a Sheet Metal tunnel ram which will be topped with 2x Holley 112-587 Throttle Bodies with inbuilt GM IAT, GM TPS & GM/Chrysler IAC Valve.

Now,
I have an M800, E888 and soon a c127 Dash.
I have Advanced Functions unlocked in my ECU and will be getting the licencing for Dual wideband support.

First Question:
Is it Possible and Recommended to run a GM Ethanol Sensor to allow on the fly switching of fuel in the car?

Second Question:
Current Setup (as run on a Haltech ECU... )
Motronic 36-1 Crank Wheel (Missing Tooth is roughly setup at about 28-30 BTDC) This is adjustable so Would be recommended or should I move the wheel so it occurs at a different point in the cycle as well as correctly setting the ECU to have the window occur twice in a Cycle.

Cam Sensor is currently a 2 Wire Sensor, I can easily change this out for a 3 wire Hall Effect s due to the 150RPM cranking speeds, we expereinced missed counters during cranking.

Crank Sensor is also a 2 Wire reluctor Sensor, If required I can fabricate a new mount and install a hall effect sensor which would be preferred?

Third Question:
I wish to use Traction Control in the ECU,
Since I am completely ditching the factory ECU in my Car ('99 Ford Fairlane), My ABS Module will not function correctly if at all. Could I feed the ABS Wheel sensors into the E888? or are there specific sensors which need to be used?

Fourth Question:
Dual TPS / Dual IAC,
Since each of the throttle Bodies will have an IAT, IAC and TPS.
Could these be used together? or even just for calibration purposes to ensure the butterflys are correctly insync with each other? Since it has a decent size camshaft can the Motec work both idle Solenoids as not to cause a mixture imbalance from the front four and rear four cylinders or am I looking too far into it?

Fifth Question:
I also have an IEX Module I will be running along side the M800 & E888 for Sequential Ignition.
I Understand Waste Spark will work as well but I prefer to have only a single spark plug fire for each cylinder to minimise igniting any left over charge from the nitrous use in the cylinders to prevent a backfire.
The coils I am running are Denso D585 LS Truck coils, I understand there were issus with the IEX Modules and these coils discharging during cranking due to increased Dwell times. I have read that there is a modification that can be completed? or is it a tune related item?

Sixth Question:
Crankcase pressure.
This is something I would like to monitor/log especially under Nitrous use.
What Sensor is recommend and position for a reading?
along side this I have been looking into a Vacuum pump for the engine so I understand too close to the vac source in the rocker covers might be a false reading, and too close to the actual combustion process in the oil pan could do the same.

Would the Lifter Valley at the base of the intake manifold work?

Seventh Question:
This will be the last question for this post as I have plenty more just so i can make sure I get this setup correct before it heads off to my tuner.

EGT Sensors, This is the reason I am running the E888 Expander.
I would like to Monitor and run protection schemes for nitrous use.

Is it possible to program a failure mode, for example if a misfire is detected that the nitrous and nitrous fuel supply is cut off from supplying the engine any more and flash the cylinder on the dash? I believe I might need to obtain the display creator licence for this?

Thanks in advance and Apologies for sounding like an uneducated person in this pursuit.

Regards,

Nathan

Flex fuel sensor: Yes it's possible. What is your base fuel going to be avgas, c12, ms109 or e85? If you are running e85 all the time it's recommended so you can see what you actually have, if you want to change from say ms109 to e85 I don't believe the compensation will be accurate enough for a race engine over that range.

Chopper wheel: I would move the gap to 60 degrees before tdc, it shouldn't be at tdc or in the ignition firing area if i recall correctly. Get a starter that turns it faster

TC: Using the Ford wheel speed sensors and chopper wheels is certainly worth a go, wire them to digital inputs 1 to 4 in the ecu rather than via expander. It's easy enough to wire one and test it.

TPS & IAC: I suspect with 2 x 1000cfm tb's on a 364 it won't need the iac at all. As to using both tps or iac in the ecu, don't know.

Coils: Don't know.

Vac pump: Definitely recommended for nitrous use. I just use a Delco map sensor off the back of a rocker cover, make sure the hose can drain or it will fill up with oil Can go anywhere up high , least oily the better. Maybe pull the vac off one cover, measure off the other.

EGT Sensors: My opinion, closed tip egt sensors are possibly durable enough, but too slow to respond for real time engine protection. Open tip are faster, but not durable enough. But yes, what you suggest should be possible.

Couple of other points.... How much are you spraying it? Fogger system or plates? The thought of using the tc whilst spraying frightens me. Seems to me to be a high risk of loading the exhaust with fuel and gas, leading to big bangs. Also some risk of exploding the manifold. I don't know anyone who has tried it, happy to hear from someone who has.

Finally , for my own interest, what heads and cam are you running? 2000cfm is a lot for a 364 @ 8k rpm. Hope this all makes sense, Sean.

Hey Sean,

Thanks for the response.

We are aiming to spray 50hp a cylinder (400hp in total),
This is the main reason why I am looking to log crankcase pressure, So we can monitor everything and see when the engine starts to increase in blowby more than increasing in power.

In regards to the large Throttle bodies, it is a combination of looks, presence and airflow.
I agree with the two throttle bodies being over kill, If i could find smaller throttle bodies i would use them but these seem to be the norm these days but the sheet metal manifold I have was built for them.
call me crazy

Cylinder heads are severly ported 220cc items from AFR, as well as the cam is a custom design which is
248/259 @0.50 with .680/.720 lift.

The traction control is more for when I run in 1000M Sprint Events and street use where Nitrous cannot be used.
Drag Racing It will be turned off completely.

EGTs, I have been looking for a set from Exhaust Gas Technologies in the US
http://www.exhaustgas.com/ProductDetail ... ID=&RepID=

They State their exposed tip probes can see a single Misfire at 8000RPM and is Nitrous Stable, awaiting a final word from them before I purchase.

Car will be full time E85 but due to Street use, I'd like the option to beable to run on Pump 98 Octane incase I cannot find E85 near me.

The Nitrous system will feed in C16 once the nitrous is active, it is a wet fogger setup with its own fuel system (another reason for the Motec dash.. seperate fuel gauges!)


Nathan

They look similar to the MoTeC ones:

http://www.motec.com.au/sensors/tempera ... aust%20gas

Just another couple of thoughts, the flex fuel sensor will only flow like a -6, so you may have to run a y piece with multiple fuel lines. Even a small percentage change in ethanol % makes a noticable difference to the tune.

Why not have a separate 98 map for cruising? Dual map is doable. What sort of comp are you planning on?

Spraying it 400 is big, are you going dry deck?

The Fuel System in the car consists of a 5L Surge with Twin 460LPH Walbro Pumps, Factory Fuel tank with a 255LPH Walbro pump (-6 to the surge so the Flex sensor will sit in this line.

We have a seperate fuel cell for the Nitrous System, as we are going a dedicated fuel system for the system.
I had a Haltech with Dual Maps and it got quite tiresome when driving around trying to empty the tank to fill it with E85 when pump was in it or vise versa.

Majority of the time the car will be on E85 but i would like the Sensor to monitor composition and temperature.
If we don't use it in the tune that is fine but the more data on hand the better!

The engine is limited to 12.5:1 without changing pistons,
I had a lifter failure a few months ago and have only come around to getting the motec and everything else so I can get the car back together for the Snowy Mountains 1000 in November!

The hold up at the moment is the engine builder checking Piston to Valve with the new camshaft so I can then get the pistonscoated for crown and skirt anti friciton.

Small update:

After spending some time on the phone with Mark,
he cleared up a few questions.

Told me not to bother with the GM Stepper Motor, but instead informed me to use a two pire PWM Item (Stock Ford)
and just get a table that is PWM vs RPM and forget about closed loop control.

I have just placed the order for my C127 Race Display kit, E888 and some DMC-D boxes as my wheel speed sensors are Mag sensors.

One thing that did come to mind, if you are spraying it 50hp a hole, I would definitely go CDI ignition, I wouldn't trust the ls truck coils to light it in that heavy nitrous application.

Hrmm,

Will look into it.

Another thing I am looking into is controlling an electric waterpump via the motec.
I believe i will need something to drive the high current side of the setup which would be just a fast response solid state relay if i am correct?

also some goodies arrived...