Honda CBR600RR

[Jonny Rochester]

I havn't been able to start the motor yet, but I'm sorting my problems very quickly as a write this and aren't far off. But I'll put up some info and questions anyhow for everyones enjoyment...

CBR600RR, 2007 onwards.
4cyl, 1-2-4-3 Number 1 is on the left, other side from chain.
Magnetic sensors.
Crank, 12 teeth evenly spaced.
Cam, 3 odd spaced teeth.
Bike has 8 injectors, but only using the 4 primarys, ~200cc/min each.
Fuel pressure 50psi / 3.5kg/cm^2

Motec M400 setup
Mode 22 (Ford Cosworth)
CRIP 431 degrees
Ref edge, falling
Sync edge, rising ?? EDIT: falling
Ref/sync filter, as suggested in M400 manual
Ref/sync mag levels, as suggested in M400 manual

Some setup here was from a start file I got from a mate of a mate, also info on this forum. But really, can someone explain why I have mode 22 and what setup is behind that? F1 Help only says Ford Cosworth. If I had another engine with similar pickups, how would I decide on mode 22? Also, the method for getting the crip for startup is a guess, as there are 3 teeth on the cam. Which one gets to start the count? (Maybe it is half way between the 2, then the next Ref tooth is the index?)

I have sync, I have fuel and spark, I have fire! Out the intake... So timing is off.

The main reason is that for Motec the ignition and injectors are fired in numerical ascending order, not firing order! I didn't know this. I need to swap some pins around, should be good now.

But here is my capture anyhow. Why is the actual file type not allowed?

capture

CBR600 capture.jpg (281.4 KiB) Viewed 20775 times

[Jonny Rochester]

I still didn't get the motor running today.

Funny thing is, that capture above was done with B1 and B2 (ref and sync) wires around backwards, but the ref signal is still shown as green somehow. (I am at a uni and other students have done some of the wiring).

I have swapped the wires, B1 is ref, B2 is sync. Did another capture and it still looks the same.

I have to have sync polarity as falling, then I get sync and the fuel&spark are operated.
If I put sync polarity as rising, I get sync errors, and no fuel&spark when cranking.

I again have fuel and spark, but spark is weak and the plugs are getting wet. They are old iridium plugs, which I remember are bad for cars without an already crisp tune. I will replace the spark plugs with new copper ones and give it another go.

total fuel is about 3msec at 50psi. How much should be needed to get an idle?

spark is around 10 degrees, but havn't checked the CRIP or use a timing light yet. My timing light is not getting a good enough signal from the 2 wires going to each coil.

[David Ferguson]

The first thing you need to do is verify the CRIP. Until then all bets are off...

Your timing light most likely needs to have it's inductive pickup between the coil and the plug. With coil on plug setups, this means you have to add a conductor that you can put the clamp around. I have used everything from a 1/4" socket extension (with a piece of insulating tubing over it), toi a standard plug wire jammed into coil connection. Time to get creative.

[AlanB]

Your ref sync setup looks correct, both edges should be falling based on the capture you uploaded and the CRIP of 431 is correct for a CBR600. The mode is also correct (mode 22), don't be concerned by the help indicating it is for a Cosworth.

The fact that you have a weak spark is a concern, have you fitted ignition amplifiers between the ECU ignition outputs and the coils? Without these it is possible to get a weak spark with a plug outside the engine, but trying to run the engine will be next to impossible.

[Jonny Rochester]

As David suggested I have made a brass rod wrapped in electrical tape to go between a spark plug and coil, and the induction camp works on this for the timing light. I only checked quickly, but the advance seams good with the timing light.

The spark plugs are working out of the engine. In my experience they maybe weak, it's borderline. If I lift the spark plug away from ground during a test I do not get a massive 10mm spark, I only get a 3mm spark. Not sure if that is enough.

The plugs are the original Denso iridium, and I believe after they get wet it will be hard to start. I suspect standard copper plugs would work better with rich and unknown mixtures so I have ordered some NGK CR9EH-9 spark plugs.

I don't have any ignition amplifier as I didn't think the CBR600RR originally used any. I am using the standard Denso coils, powered with 12V. If you recommend it, I think I have 4 Bosch igniters somewhere but I see it as an eyesore if not needed.

Thankyou for your comments.

[AlanB]

Sounds like you have answered your own question then Jonny, no ignition amplifiers will be your problem as they are definitely required.

We normally recommend a pair of dual channel Bosch units for this application, you'll be able to get these from your MoTeC dealer.

[stevieturbo]

Or change to coils wit built in amps, it will be neater.

[Jonny Rochester]

Engine is now running well and I can progress to the tuning phase and further setup. Thanks for your helpful comments.

I bought a Ye Olde Bosch 0227100211 4 channel igniter (actually a HELLA part that was very expensive). Ever since, my facebook feed shows Amazon ads for an equivalent for $24.

I now have big sparks outside the motor up to 12mm long