MoTeC Global Forum

Looking at a COP to replace a wasted spark.
The COP people have a condenser that they recommend, but no word on where it goes?

I will be running a Bosch 0 277 100 211 between the ECU and the COP as an amplifier.
MoTeC drawing "M37"

Do I need a condenser and where would it go?

Condenser is traditionally put on the wire to the coil primary winding B+, but with an ign amplifier, you need to be careful, best ask the amp mfg, as it could potentially be enough extra oomph to pop the condenser if we're talking CDi type voltages.

Scott@FP wrote:Condenser is traditionally put on the wire to the coil primary winding B+, but with an ign amplifier, you need to be careful, best ask the amp mfg, as it could potentially be enough extra oomph to pop the condenser if we're talking CDi type voltages.

I am not sure how to get info on the Bosch unit.

What is the "B+" ? --- Is that the 12V from the battery?
I am under the impression that the coil is wired to the ignition's 12V, and that the ground side is sinked to ground through the 'amplifier' (bosch 0 227 100 211) as dwell starts... then when it is time to fire the ground side is no longer sinked to ground, which is effectively (electrically) the same as disconnecting the 12V.

So I am not sure what a capacitor on +12V would do other than hold extra charge.
It is for inductive COP units.

I run two of the 3 channel versions of that amp on my six cylinder RB26DETT engine firing none amplified COPS. There's no condenser and I have no issues with it up to 9,000 RPM

This condenser is used for suppressing ignition originated noise. Some systems may run without but it helps to keep noise down, especially when variable reluctor (magnetic) position sensors are used.

B+ is short for Battery +12V, and usually it comes from relay that activates when system is powered up, not all the time. I always install noise suppression capacitor, usually near coil or coils where the b+ feeding wire is split to coil connectors.

PQatPIT wrote:This condenser is used for suppressing ignition originated noise. Some systems may run without but it helps to keep noise down, especially when variable reluctor (magnetic) position sensors are used.

B+ is short for Battery +12V, and usually it comes from relay that activates when system is powered up, not all the time. I always install noise suppression capacitor, usually near coil or coils where the b+ feeding wire is split to coil connectors.

How are they wired in?
I can see issue with globs of solder, or parts swinging around.

Holmz-

They are usually supplied with a spade terminal and ground thru the case. I guess you are too young to remember points distributors? Same thing. They just absorb the flyback voltage spike.

http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/2 ... denser.jpg

It was great fun to spin a dizzy, stop it so the condenser was charged, very carefully remove it by the insulated wire, and toss it at your buddy in the shop. Good times.

Scott@FP wrote:Holmz-

They are usually supplied with a spade terminal and ground thru the case. I guess you are too young to remember points distributors? Same thing. They just absorb the flyback voltage spike.

http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/2 ... denser.jpg

It was great fun to spin a dizzy, stop it so the condenser was charged, very carefully remove it by the insulated wire, and toss it at your buddy in the shop. Good times.

Thanks Scott.
I thought that they were used in the distributor systems to keep the voltage from arcing across the points.
Probably best to limit the noise in the system, even though I have no radio.

Holmz wrote:Probably best to limit the noise in the system, even though I have no radio.

Noise suppression is for engine management unit, and especially incoming position signals and +12V feed. Although it is usually not a problem with MoTeC ecus some lesser systems can suffer greatly.

I use some plastic types, polypropylene etc., capacitance should be about or more than 0.47uF and voltage 100V. Whatever as long as it is a fast type so that sppression capability is high. OEM's install these anyway and they do not do it for fun.

PQatPIT wrote:Noise suppression is for engine management unit, and especially incoming position signals and +12V feed. Although it is usually not a problem with MoTeC ecus some lesser systems can suffer greatly.

I use some plastic types, polypropylene etc., capacitance should be about or more than 0.47uF and voltage 100V. Whatever as long as it is a fast type so that sppression capability is high. OEM's install these anyway and they do not do it for fun.

Why do they not build these into the COPs?
And for that matter the amplifier?

I could probably use suggestions on where to have the condensers and where to have the Bosch amplifier???
Do you mount the amplifier on the engine somewhere(?) or is the wire length not an issue.
Not sure about heat, but vibration should not be an issue.