Please help with me with ref/sync settings

[scoobyman]

Hello dear Motec support team!

I am having trouble with constant ref runt, sync runt and sync lo level errors, i have looked through the webinar and i have some understanding on what those warnings are and how to treat them and i will play with my filters after i have exluded all other error scenarios. But after looking at my ref/sync capture i am buffled, but then again, i am a noob and the only thing i have are fragments of webinar memories and no experience whatsoever, so please, help me understand this capture.

The car is a 1995 subaru impreza wrx sti with ej20 engine, no AVCS.

The only thing i understand from looking at those waves is that my both my ref and sync are magnetic type and both have a falling wave, but i have no idea if CRIP and CRT are set correctly for this engine, can someone shed some light ? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

Here is the ref/sync capture and my sync/ref setup. It wave captured at idle, which is around 900 rpm.

[stevieturbo]

Those are standard settings for your engine. They should be correct.

CRip refers to the TDC reference, again Motec's base settings will be correct. Although the instructions will tell you how to check this with a timing light on cylinder 1.

As for the ref/sync/runt errors etc.

I get them all the time too on a friends Subaru. Despite them, there seems to be no noticeable effect on how the car runs and it's been like that for years.
I did try messing with some of the filters, but it didnt really seem to make much difference. They only occurred at higher rpm's though

Just gave up worrying about it in the end.

Just to add. you would need to do a ref/sync capture at high rpm to try and see if any filter levels are being exceeded by noise. Chances of it happening at idle are slim.
As you can see on your traces, the signals are good and clean with virtually no noise showing.

[scoobyman]

Thanks Stevie,

So the reference and sync looks alright to you at idle ?

My current gripe with the car is that it takes a few cranks to get it started and once the battery's charge is below 12volts there's no way it will start, it just cranks and cranks, no spark.

The other issue i have is pretty high EGT's on a very conservative tune with low lambda numbers, the car is running 10.5 afr and yet it's still heating my EGT sensor to 900C on mildly spirited runs. To me, it's an indication of either too much of a retard or advance, but that is not the case with my map, i will also attach my ignition table.

Also, if these graphs do not give any indication to an incorrectly setup ref/sync, could anyone recommend me ref/sync mag and filter tables. The voltage also looks a bit excessive to me, but what do i know.

Thanks!

Sync trace below


Ref trace below

[Holmz]

It would be more likely to have hot exhaust from retarded ignition.
What are your ignitions relative to?
(i.e. where you want them, or is the spark actually happening at those values?)

You will need to set an offset from the CRIP to the TDC or something along those lines. I would break out the timing light.

[scoobyman]

(i.e. where you want them, or is the spark actually happening at those values?)

You will need to set an offset from the CRIP to the TDC or something along those lines. I would break out the timing light.

You know, i feel slightly ashamed, but i have never in my life dealt with setting up ignition timings so i have no idea about it's workings.

I thought that it's absolutely fine to put on a timing belt so that the markings line up and you could get away with "standard" timing settings in the ecu, is it not how it's done ?

[Holmz]

One can either move you sensor around to get the TDC in the right place, or set the offset in the s/w so that if your sensor is off then the ECU knows the relationship between the sensor and the piston.
Just like rotating the distributor with numbers.

You may not currently have many issue with the turbo spooling??

[scoobyman]

You may not currently have many issue with the turbo spooling??

It's funny that you mention it, but yep, my turbo is spooling at least 500 rpm slower than it used to do before we changed the timing belt, but there was also quite an extensive list of things being done to the car (exhaust, intake, larger intercooler) and i attributed the slow spool to those things (still searching for boost leaks). We tuned the AFR's for all those things, but we never used the timing light to set up correct CRip numbers.

I think it's coming together now, wrong CRip, timing off a few degrees, causing slow spool and high egt's.
The worst part though, i moved and i have no idea how to check ignition timing with a timing light and the person who was building and setting motec up on my car is 1000's of miles away and i have no contacts in this new area whatsoever. I thought my ref/sync graph would give someone an idea if my CRip is out, but i guess it's not as easy as it sounds..

[Holmz]

Just get a cheap timing light and see where its is at.
(Anywhere were you know the value and it is stable)
Then see where the cell indicates that the timing should be at.

I would have thought that you have spooled sooner with higher EGT, so maybe more has happened.
The 10.5 lambda would probably move the spool to the right.

[scoobyman]

A thought has crossed my mind, what if the person who first mapped my car, did not bother to check that his CRIP value was correct in relation to TDC and simply started mapping from whatever default value he found for my car.

So now, if for whatever reason my TDC shifted (sensor moved, any other reasons ?) in reference to his CRIP value and even if i set my CRIP correctly with a timing light, it might still end up not being the right CRIP setting that makes my car run fine on this map ?

Is it a viable scenario?

Sorry, just trying to get my head around all this information.

[Blu302]

To correct for a variance in the Crip value, you can change the whole map by using overall trim under the Adjust>ignition tab.